Random Scheerhorn thread mostly out of curiousity.

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This is an interesting thread. A used L body (Tim scheerhorn made) just sold on resohangout for $2500. I was shocked. It hadn't been on there for long when it sold. Unfortunately for me, I love the scheerhorn sound of the moh/spruce and mah/ced. I don't like the straight mahogany resos that i've heard played. Even the difference between the mah/ced and the mag/spruce L bodies that I have are so different. It's surprising to me how much the top affects the sound. My fav are still the standard bodies (for the mahogany wood only). It would be a dream come true if national guitars would take diff wood combos and sizes, but they can't. Looks aren't a big deal, but they are a bonus. Anyway, that's my two cents. 

melman's picture

Lakeview uses the word "stiffer," and that's how I would describe the difference in feel between the Nati-horns I played and the other Scheerhorn that I've played.  It seemed to me that it was difficult to play the Nati-horns at lower volumes, or less than wide open, and get a good sound.  They sounded great when you really dug in, but when you tried to moderate the volume, they didn't sound as good. I've played several other guitars by different makers with this same characteristic, but the older Scheerhorn that I've played did not have that quality.  It had a much broader dynamic range than the Nati-horns.    

MarkinSonoma's picture

Jerry, good to see you on here, it's been awhile! Did you send the mahogany/cedar to Tim yet for that work you were going to have done? Interesting what you say about how much two different tops can effect the sound. On the other hand, they could both be made of the same tops (and backs and sides) and still sound fairly different. It's why all guitars need to be evaluated as individuals, sweeping generalizations are often inaccurate, regardless of the builder.  It's why I posted that quote from a few years back earlier in the thread from Miie Witcher.  With laminate wood guitars it is possible (not a given) that  there is likely less variance from one guitar to the next of the same model provided they have similar setups, strings, etc.

I went over to Resohangout trying to find the Tim-horn that sold for $2500, and I couldn't find it. Are you sure about this? 

I didn't go back and listen to Matt's comparisons, I checked them out when they were initially put up on Facebook, and because they were done with what I recall was apparently a phone camera I couldn't really get behind whatever comparison was being made sound-wise. The obvious argument before someone posts this is, "sure, it's just a phone camera, but it's still a like comparison, apples-to-apples, because the same equipment was used for each guitar."  That's true  - but it's so far off what a good guitar sounds like in real life that you have to take it with many grains of salt. 

I also wouldn't want to put too much money into the "stiff" thing as a determining factor as to whether or not to buy a guitar. It's a whole thread unto itself, but I believe these things need some break-in time, regardless of who builds them. 

Greg Booth's picture

Jerry Durocher:

This is an interesting thread. A used L body (Tim scheerhorn made) just sold on resohangout for $2500. I was shocked. It hadn't been on there for long when it sold.

Wasn't that a standard (R) body, not an L Body?

MarkinSonoma's picture

And if was a standard body, did it look like it had been dragged behind a pickup truck for a mile or so? 

mtndon's picture

On the UMGF:

http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.yuku.com/topic/160447/SOLD-Scheerh...

Last year I noticed a Scheerhorn R body like mine for sale and I think the asking price was $6500.  I believe right now some prices are softening.

melman's picture

Yeah, Mark, I hear you about "not putting too much money" in the "stiff" factor, or in any one person's individual opinion, for that matter. However, I have actually played one of these beasts.  Can you say the same?

MarkinSonoma's picture

Melman, I wasn't being dismissive of your post. No need to get defensive - I was leaving a lot out, I get on a roll sometimes with posts that are too long, so I was trying to spare the members here. Too late, here's another longish post. It's why I wrote that it's worth a whole thread unto itself.  I'll explain. 

IMO, since we all have opinions, new dobros might take even more time to sound like what they are eventually going to sound like for a lot of years than flattop guitars do. Whether it's a combination of wood "opening up" (which some don't believe in) or a combination of all the factors in the setup, they might actually be more difficult in which to give an appraisal when still new than other acoustic stringed instruments. I had a good dicussion over a beer one time about this with Todd Clinesmith.

Part of this might be from the whole "speaker cone" business that is such a significant factor in the sound of a dobro. I hear it over and over from guitar amplifier people, and stereo equipment people - speakers need time to break in. 

I don't doubt for a second what you say is true about the stiffness and you have to hit the gas pedal pretty hard on the new Nati-horn to get the tone you're looking for, and it might not be the optimum sound for softer playing at this time. That's what came across to you so to your ears that's the way it is.  But it's also the first time I have heard that from anyone who has played a Nati-horn, including those that own the things.  Maybe owners will say "come to think of it - melman has a point there." On the other hand they might say, "i'm not really noticing that at all."

Hey - maybe I'm not even a very good candidate for a Nati-horn, or at least one made from maple. My maple Clinesmith tends toward the sound of Mike Witcher's koa 'smith even though the woods are different. I think it's a little more in your face than Mike's guitar because it is maple,  but not by a whole lot, because it is Western Big Leaf Maple as opposed to Eastern Hardrock Maple. On the hardness scale, big leaf maple is  softer than eastern hardrock, so it doesn't quite have the "cut" that guitars made from the eastern version have.

 

melman's picture

Mark, I appreciate that response.  However, I wasn't being defensive; I was agreeing with you, and I was asking a question.  And, call me old-fashioned if you want to, but I think if a person sort of sets himself up as the authority on these guitars, and particularly, the way they're apparently revolutionizng the industry, that person would be a little more credible if they'd actually played one.  

MarkinSonoma's picture

Melman, in your opinion I've set myself up as an authority, in my opinion, I don't think that way at all, but I'm a guy who has played dobro for a long time, has some wriitng ability and a background in that area,  having written gardening columns and a handful of magazine pieces for a number of years, enjoys writing, and does a decent job in the modern era of online forums of stimulating conversations. I might post a lot because it gets the writing "jones" out of my system since it's been some years since I was employed as a columnist. Maybe I'm  a little bit like a proctor or moderator in a debate here, but I'm apparently not smart enough to remain neutral as a proctor is supposed to be. Wink

Online forums have become a fairly significant part of modern culture in thousands of different subjects. I'm the all-time "leading poster" as it were on Reso-Nation since its inception. I've mentioned to folks in the past that I enjoy being on a forum like this, but if you post often enough, it's inevitable that you are going to annoy someone or flat out piss them off. The safest approach is to post very little, stick with one-liners, or be a lurker, which carries kind of derisive vibe with it. I'd prefer to see more participants. This is the 50th post n this thread, with 1160 "reads." Come on out of the woodwork, lurkers! Let's see what you have to say on the subject.

It's the nature of the beast -  an online forum can fall woefully short as a means of communication, because you can't always take the time to craft a post like you're the next Ernest Hemingway, and sleep on it and come back to it later, it can come out like an off-the-cuff conversation does in person, but seeing it in "official" text on a computer screen, it seems to have more gravitas than a person-to-person conversation does.  

I've said for years that these forums are sort of the online equvialent of sitting around in a bar at a table with some guys having beers and munching on pretzels and peanuts - but it just doesn't work the same way as actually being there in person. 

 

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